Genesis storyline (spoilers)

Chat about the Genesis project and storyline
felice
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Genesis storyline (spoilers)

Postby felice » Mon Oct 14, 2002 11:45 pm

Nice work 8)A couple of comments:Kirara shouldn't be part of the F01. I see no reason to retcon his heroic death, there was no hint of him having such significance in the series, and neither Lamia nor Halley are lacking in courage.And there should be a stronger reason for the Heir's choice of Shiro, considering the huge amount of effort that was required to get him there. Perhaps his affinity for Lamia is important - he can be used to attack the Lamia "from behind" while her attention is focused on the Master? Or hers for him - she would hesitate to act against the Master in Shiro's body, or harm Shiro by interferring in the Master's transference between the astral plane and Shiro?And the complete absence of female characters is a bit annoying (it's debatable whether the F01 counts).But overall, a very impressive effort. A nice complex storyline, and a good workaround of the tricky problem of the F01's godlike powers.

AndyThomas
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Genesis storyline (spoilers)

Postby AndyThomas » Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:43 am

Wow, this may actually bring the number of people commenting on Genesis into double figures! You've raised some interesting points, and ironically I'm a little rusty on my story myself! However...Kirara was ever the enigma in the series. Very alien, and yet his/her/its presence is never entirely explained. We don't actually know for sure that Kirara was dead - he'd been shot in the past and bounced back. So rather than just have him fade into nothingness having been such a strong defender of Lamia, I felt it made sense to have him continue in that sort of role.Shiro's involvement with the Heir and the Master's rebirth is something of a plot device, I'll grant you. However, the Master would as you rightly say get a kick out of being a sadistic so and so and taking over the body of the individual who, in part, caused his "death". The Lamia element of F-01 would definitely have difficulty in acting against Shiro, and also, it was she who was partly responsible for Shiro getting placed in harm's way. There's also Shiro's handy helmet for the conversion to a symbiote, of course! A hero's lot is not always a happy one!I do apologise for the lack of female involvement in the sequel, but I was basically trying to re-use the original cast and unfortunately all the women were either killed or elevated to a higher state of being! Hopefully Shane's Revenge of Makara will redress the balance!Anyway, glad you liked it overall - it's always interesting to see whether people pick up on elements you include in this sort of thing, and whether they come up with ideas you hadn't thought of...
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felice
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Genesis storyline (spoilers)

Postby felice » Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:16 am

I agree that some recognition of Kirara would be a good thing, but I still don't think he belongs as part of F01. It conflicts with his role as bodyguard, for a start; protecting a component of F01 makes sense, but getting another component to do the job doesn't. And while he's survived handgun fire, being shot by a ship and thrown in to the vacuum is another matter entirely. Does he share Lamia's ability to function in an oxygen-poor environment? IMAO, a better idea would be to introduce more of his species. The X-Bomber crashing on their home world in the Thalian Zone where they're enslaved by the Alliance would fit nicely, for example. And perhaps a funeral scene would be appropriate at the beginning of Genesis.You're right that the Heir would enjoy using Shiro purely for sadistic reasons, but I think explicitly acknowledging the practical benefits of using Shiro over a much less problematic Alliance officer would make the plot seem more plausible.I understand that you're stuck with male leads, but there is room for more women in the supporting cast: the Alliance captains, EDF pilots, etc. A possible character that occurs to me is a very talented second-in-command for the K'Lar, who escapes Star Fleet's capture of the vessel. She'd have been responsible for the smarter actions of the Alliance, but unable to overrule her Captains more reckless decisions. Not a major character in Genesis, but it could be the setup for a third season, which would need the villains to be a lot more cunning since they'd no longer have the military advantage.Anyway, what's up with Revenge of Makara? Is there any idea as to when it might be online?

Shane
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Genesis storyline (spoilers)

Postby Shane » Tue Oct 15, 2002 9:28 pm

Sunday.In one form or another.I've had to downsize the project so it's going to be text and pictures now. But I always said that TROM would be a concept project.Star Fleet: Season 3 (The Revenge Of Makara) Begins Sunday.Apologies for turning a Genesis thread into an advert for my project but hey it's all one big project at the end of the day isn't it? Anyway just wait till you see my visualisation of your advanced X Fighter squadron Andy. ;)Shane.(Edited by Shane at 10:30 pm on Oct. 15, 2002)
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AndyThomas
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Genesis storyline (spoilers)

Postby AndyThomas » Tue Oct 15, 2002 9:31 pm

Ah-hah. ;)  I can get you on something there!  Kirara can indeed survive in an oxygen-poor environment.  In the series, one of the later Alliance attacks on X-Bomber succeeds in damaging the oxygen production plant.  Lamia has just started becoming F-01 in earnest, so is able to breath in the thin air.  Kirara is still up and around at this point, and helps Lamia by getting the crew to sick bay.  Genesis does start a few months after the end of Star Fleet, so funerals, services etc would already have happened.  Another thing to remember is that it would be incredibly difficult to locate and retrieve Kirara's body in space - and so there's nothing to say it was ever found.  Also note that the entire Skull, along with whatever crew were still alive, vanished as part of the F-01 birth.  So I don't think it's stretching things too far for Kirara to have been caught up in that.  As for a planet of Kiraras - urm, there wouldn't be a lot of conversation! ;)I suppose I could have fleshed out the reason for Shiro's choice further, but then you start getting into a lot of explanatory blurb which you're supposed to avoid.  As it is, it's up to the reader to attribute their own motivations like the ones you've suggested.  As for using an Alliance member - they wouldn't necessarily be less problematic.  Bear in mind the civil war that was brewing.  Would an Alliance officer, hungry for power, want the Imperial Master back on the scene?  Also, remember that F-01 is partly responsible for X-Bomber being lured into the Heir's trap and the Heir could predict that happening.  So at one fell swoop you remove a hero of the EDF, and also capture the one ship they had that could stand up to the Imperial fleet, whilst bringing your leader back.  Nice and neat, if a little over complicated!The idea of a female second in command is interesting.  There's also a question mark over Shiro's mother in a sense - with his father (or so we believe) involved with EDF at a high level, it makes you wonder if his mother is also around playing a significant role.  Had I approached Genesis as a sort of out and out novel there'd probably have been more secondary characters which would have given scope for more female characters, but it was quite a time intensive process to write as much as I did!  You might like to read some of my other fiction which does include female characters:http://www.adamantium.demon.co.uk/fiction/As for Revenge of Makara, that's up to Shane - I think he may be intending to launch it in a couple of weeks, the 20th anniversary of the show's first showing over here...Edit - or then again, as Shane just posted while I was writing this, it could be out this Sunday!  And me X-Fighters are in it, niiiice ;) Ain't continuity grand!
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Shane
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Genesis storyline (spoilers)

Postby Shane » Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:05 pm

No you're right Andy I've got my dates wrong, doh. I actually meant the launch to be on the 30th of this month (the 20th Aniversary of Star Fleet) Well at least that gives me a little more time to tweak it.Andy what is the timeline for your story? I know the series is set in 2999 and your story obviously takes place in the middle of 3000 I'm looking to have my story set in the year 3001. I'm guessing the events in Genesis transpired in a relatively short amount of time?Shane.(Edited by Shane at 11:23 pm on Oct. 15, 2002)
I like parties, I like fun, I want to live in a hamburger bun!

felice
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Genesis storyline (spoilers)

Postby felice » Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:56 am

Yes, I was wondering about that episode. I couldn't recall whether Kirara had been incapacitated or not. Still, oxygen-poor is not the same as vacuum. But the main issue is whether he should have survived and become part of F01, not whether he could have. Does anyone else have an opinion on this?As for the crew of the Skull, I'd assumed they were all dead (the one who collapses after reporting to Halley being the last).And conversation isn't necessary for a good story... but Kirara's people could have translation devices if necessary. Or some of them could be symbiotified, with their symbiote doing the talking. I'm sure there is plenty of potential for including Kirara's homeworld in some way.You're right that there exposition shouldn't be overdone... just a single extra line would be sufficient, though. But yes, the opportunity to capture/destroy the X-Bomber does make Shiro a better choice.

Happosai
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Genesis storyline (spoilers)

Postby Happosai » Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:00 am

Regarding Kirara's homeworld...make sure you don't do a "Lucas" with it: i.e. the Wookie/Ewoks thing, or even worse, Star Wars Holiday Special (to be fair, that one wasn't his fault)...!!! (^_^)[Happosai](Edited by Happosai at 12:38 pm on Oct. 17, 2002)

AndyThomas
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Genesis storyline (spoilers)

Postby AndyThomas » Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:02 pm

Heh. "Mon-Mon in "I was Kirara's love child" shocker!"
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felice
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Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 11:14 pm

Genesis storyline (spoilers)

Postby felice » Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:09 pm

Ah, now _that_ would explain why Kirara was so worried about Lamia talking to the Mon-Mons 8)I imagine Kiraraworld as being relatively high-tech (though less so than Earth), with sophisticated culture and so forth. Just because they're biologically incapable of speaking human languages is no reason to assume they're primitive. As for ewokification, we just need to make sure that if a big corporation offers to fund production of Genesis, we insist on maintaining full creative control.


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